Pericolul nationalismului - Reactii roscai@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Rosca Ioan) wrote: >Ioan Rosca, >purtator de cuvint al unui singur membru CDR (Ioan Rosca) >sperind totusi ca exprima nazuintele mai multora Rog sa fiu considerat ca facind parte dintre cei care impartasesc nazuintele domnului Rosca. Si nu e vorba aici (doar) de aspectul generic al acestor nazuinte ("democratizare" a tarii, de pilda), ci de culoarea - si greutatea specifica pe care le au aceste nazuinte in mesajele postate cu obstinatie de Ioan Rosca in ultimii ani. Am mai spus-o cu alte prilejuri si mi-e un pic jena sa contribui cu atit de putin, dar mai bine atit decit nimic : nu cunosc un simbol al Romaniei rezistente, al Romaniei verticale mai puternic, mai emotionant si mai convingator decit dl. Rosca. Chiar daca, pare-se, nu convinge pe toata lumea. Sau cu atit mai mult... Adrian Vasiliu From: rodica perciali (rocultur@one.net) Subject: Re: Pericolul nationalismului... Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian Date: 1996/09/17 Adrian VASILIU wrote: > > roscai@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Rosca Ioan) wrote: > >Ioan Rosca, > >purtator de cuvint al unui singur membru CDR (Ioan Rosca) > >sperind totusi ca exprima nazuintele mai multora > > Rog sa fiu considerat ca facind parte dintre cei care impartasesc nazuintele > domnului Rosca. Si nu e vorba aici (doar) de aspectul generic al acestor > nazuinte ("democratizare" a tarii, de pilda), ci de culoarea - si greutatea > specifica pe care le au aceste nazuinte in mesajele postate cu obstinatie de > Ioan Rosca in ultimii ani. Am mai spus-o cu alte prilejuri si mi-e un pic > jena sa contribui cu atit de putin, dar mai bine atit decit nimic : nu > cunosc un simbol al Romaniei rezistente, al Romaniei verticale mai puternic, > mai emotionant si mai convingator decit dl. Rosca. Chiar daca, pare-se, nu > convinge pe toata lumea. Sau cu atit mai mult... > > Adrian Vasiliu Doresc sa ma adug si eu acelorasi aprecieri si sa afirm ca suntetm norocosi sa avem printre noi (cred) un intelectual de calitatea dlui Rosca. Dar ceea ce cred eu, gindind Romania (si activind de multi ani intr-o medie de 10 ore zilnic pt. domeniul romanesc) este ca cea mai mare lipsa a Romaniei nu este in persoane de genul dlui Rosca intelectualul ci in intelectuali de genul acesta (inclusiv calibrul moral) care sa fie si activi, activi e putin spus, MODELE este cuvintul...Ele ne lipsesc sau sunt prea putine. Mari personalitati politice ne lipsesc...care sa fie deci si intelectuali, si pragmatici la nevoie si totdeuna caractere puternice si pentru interesele tarii...Oare dl.Rosca nu mai poate sa fie la fel de activ cum inteleg ca a fost in tara acum citiva ani? De aceasta am avea nevoie. Aici, in SUA si Canada, ne lipsesc liderii cu desavirsire. Poate ca nu sunt nici destui posibili "followers" caci daca ei ar fi fost multi si intelepti dintre ei s-ar fi ridicat si lideri...Poate ca unii ar avea calitatile dar ceilalti nu vor sa recunoasca, poate ca presa nu a stiut sa stimuleze, poate ca, poate ca...Dar acum URGENT este nevoie sa producem o mare schimbare. Oare putem?Oare vrem destul? Oare ne dam seama ca am avea de cistigat chiar si la nivel personal caci mai mult sau mia putin toti avem sentimentul complexului vinovatiei ca nu facem destul pt.tara si pt.valorile noastre si pt.noi ca grup SI NICI PT.SOCIETATEA AMERICANA IN CARE TRAIM si in care, alaturi de capacitatile noastre intelectuale, am putea avea si o voce, idei, adica un aport real, "aport romanesc" substantial, ca microgrup si nu numai accidental prin indivizi deosebiti, pasari rare...care pot sfirsi ca ICARI fara noi, restul... Rodica Perciali From: Rad (rad@airmail.net) Subject: Re: Pericolul nationalismului... Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian Date: 1996/09/18 Adrian VASILIU wrote: > > roscai@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Rosca Ioan) wrote: > >Ioan Rosca, > >purtator de cuvint al unui singur membru CDR (Ioan Rosca) > >sperind totusi ca exprima nazuintele mai multora > > Rog sa fiu considerat ca facind parte dintre cei care impartasesc nazuintele > domnului Rosca. Si nu e vorba aici (doar) de aspectul generic al acestor > nazuinte ("democratizare" a tarii, de pilda), ci de culoarea - si greutatea > specifica pe care le au aceste nazuinte in mesajele postate cu obstinatie de > Ioan Rosca in ultimii ani. Am mai spus-o cu alte prilejuri si mi-e un pic > jena sa contribui cu atit de putin, dar mai bine atit decit nimic : nu > cunosc un simbol al Romaniei rezistente, al Romaniei verticale mai puternic, > mai emotionant si mai convingator decit dl. Rosca. Chiar daca, pare-se, nu > convinge pe toata lumea. Sau cu atit mai mult... > > Adrian Vasiliu Mr Rosca is an antisemite and a cry baby weenie. His position is not "verticala", but "vaicareala". He SELECTIVELY applies "principles", which means that they are not principles at all. There is no moral line that you can say that he advocates: look closely at his posts and you will see that he as a norm applies different standards of interpretation, depending on whether things are within his nationalistic frame or outside of it. His rethoric is identical to the Iron Guard's with the exception that he now has the "communists in power" horse to beat, as well. This is not to say that denouncing communism is not the right thing to do; the striking fact is that he is using this as the canvas on top of which he adds prejudiced, antisemitic nuances which seem to be at the core of his thinking. I hope you remember that a few months ago (when I was corresponding with you in private, Mr Vasiliu), Mr Rosca tried to portray me as a communist nostalgic, implying that I was one because I am a Romanian Jew. He challanged me to denounce communism and its methods, which I did (mentioning names, as well). He dissapeared when it came to his denouncing the nationalism [and methods] of murderers that he still helds as freedom fighters and for whom he does propaganda. All of this, of course, is a difference in ideas, so I will not try to influence you or anybody that mine are perfect, correct, the one and only solution. I just want to point to you [and others] that it is easy to fall prey to some nationalistic rethoric REGARDLESS of your nationality. Believe it or not :^) , it DOES sound good and it does give more importance to the reader. Note though that Mr Rosca is not somebody with solutions and that his [few] ideas about how to fix some problems that he perceives, are not democratic, as he loudly claims them to be (and you believe him). They are not democratic because he believes that they can be applied selectively and with different standards. There is NO moral value in this. At the same time (if the moral aspect is not an issue to you), I'll just remind you that this same type of thinking created problems in the past (where Mr Rosca takes much of his thinking from, anyway). Do you know, Mr Vasiliu, of any society where nationalism like Mr Rosca's is the norm, that you would like to live in (past or present)? Now to a hypotetical, yet more concrete question: let's say that in Romania nationalism becomes the norm (everybody is in agreement, those who do not are communists who do not deserve to live in Romania, so do with them whatever Mr Rosca thinks we need to do with them - he never specifies it); would this solve everything (if anything)? Last word - back to Mr Rosca's selectiveness - his constant refusal to denounce those who commited the Holocaust of Romanian Jewry shows his real face. On acount of their having "faught communism", he absolves all those horrible murderers. He is basically saying "those that fight for our cause have a chance of redemption, more so if they killed people that don't belong to our nation". As long as you and Mr Rosca militate for nationalism, you'll be all right. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes though when (once nationalism installed), you'd start to have views different from Mr Rosca's, thus loosing the priviledge of fighter for "our cause". Rad From: Mihai Caragiu (caragiu@delta.math.wsu.edu) Subject: Re: Pericolul nationalismului... Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian Date: 1996/09/20 Adrian VASILIU wrote: > roscai@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Rosca Ioan) wrote: > >Ioan Rosca, > >purtator de cuvint al unui singur membru CDR (Ioan Rosca) > >sperind totusi ca exprima nazuintele mai multora > > Rog sa fiu considerat ca facind parte dintre cei care impartasesc nazuintele > domnului Rosca. Si nu e vorba aici (doar) de aspectul generic al acestor > nazuinte ("democratizare" a tarii, de pilda), ci de culoarea - si greutatea > specifica pe care le au aceste nazuinte in mesajele postate cu obstinatie de > Ioan Rosca in ultimii ani. Am mai spus-o cu alte prilejuri si mi-e un pic > jena sa contribui cu atit de putin, dar mai bine atit decit nimic : nu > cunosc un simbol al Romaniei rezistente, al Romaniei verticale mai puternic, > mai emotionant si mai convingator decit dl. Rosca. Chiar daca, pare-se, nu > convinge pe toata lumea. Sau cu atit mai mult... > > Adrian Vasiliu I would like to subscribe to Mr.Vasiliu's statement, being one of those for which any of Mr.Rosca's articles on s.c.r. is a gift, bringing meaning to life, providing a fortunate opportunity for performing an exercise of admiration, in a few words, I was won by him. Mihai Caragiu Rad Edelstein wrote: > > Mr Rosca is an antisemite and a cry baby weenie. >... As for Mr. Edelstein: perhaps he will make history by reformulating the concept of "antisemitism" to the effect that one will be labeled an "anti-semite" whenever he will be hated by a "semite", isn't it. From: Miha Ahronovitz (miha@io.org) Subject: Re: Pericolul nationalismului... Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian Date: 1996/09/21 I>As for Mr. Edelstein: perhaps he will make history by reformulating the >concept of "antisemitism" to the effect that one will be labeled an "anti-semite" >whenever he will be hated by a "semite", isn't it. Ai re-aparut? Esti neschimbat, neclintit. Spui o prostie si apoi mumuri Ramayana in nestire... S-a anuntat deja la buletinul meteorologic From: SavulescuG@aol.com (SavulescuG@aol.com) Subject: Re: Pericolul nationalismului... Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian Date: 1996/09/25 Domnule Rosca, inca o data straluciti ca un luceafar pe cerul antisemitismului. Domnul Moses, ambasadorul SUA la Bucuresti este in principiu pentru un guvern de centru-dreapta format intre CDR-USD si ANL. Realitatea politica sa schimbat domnule Rosca, trebuie sa inregistrati ca PNTCD este acum in Opozitie cu Petre Roman. Cu parere de rau, dar dumnevoastra va aflati de mult in offsaid politic. Cat priveste implicarea unor functionari de stat federali americani in campania electorala in Romania alaturi de Ion Iliescu, ea este un scandal, dar care nu este exploatat. Nu stiu care sint problemele Dv, dar se pare ca puneti orice la socoteala in spatele evreilor. Nu vi-se pare acest fapt mai mult decat stupid? Chiar credeti ca ve-ti guverna aceasta tara dupa 3 noiembrie?