Pericolul nationalismului - Reactii


roscai@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Rosca Ioan) wrote:
>Ioan Rosca,     
>purtator de cuvint al unui singur membru CDR (Ioan Rosca)
>sperind totusi ca exprima nazuintele mai multora

Rog sa fiu considerat ca facind parte dintre cei care impartasesc nazuintele
domnului Rosca. Si nu e vorba aici (doar) de aspectul generic al acestor
nazuinte ("democratizare" a tarii, de pilda), ci de culoarea - si greutatea
specifica pe care le au aceste nazuinte in mesajele postate cu obstinatie de
Ioan Rosca in ultimii ani. Am mai spus-o cu alte prilejuri si mi-e un pic
jena sa contribui cu atit de putin, dar mai bine atit decit nimic : nu
cunosc un simbol al Romaniei rezistente, al Romaniei verticale mai puternic,
mai emotionant si mai convingator decit dl. Rosca. Chiar daca, pare-se, nu
convinge pe toata lumea. Sau cu atit mai mult...

Adrian Vasiliu

 From: rodica perciali (rocultur@one.net)
 Subject: Re: Pericolul nationalismului... 
 Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
 Date: 1996/09/17 


Adrian VASILIU wrote:
> 
> roscai@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Rosca Ioan) wrote:
> >Ioan Rosca,
> >purtator de cuvint al unui singur membru CDR (Ioan Rosca)
> >sperind totusi ca exprima nazuintele mai multora
> 
> Rog sa fiu considerat ca facind parte dintre cei care impartasesc nazuintele
> domnului Rosca. Si nu e vorba aici (doar) de aspectul generic al acestor
> nazuinte ("democratizare" a tarii, de pilda), ci de culoarea - si greutatea
> specifica pe care le au aceste nazuinte in mesajele postate cu obstinatie de
> Ioan Rosca in ultimii ani. Am mai spus-o cu alte prilejuri si mi-e un pic
> jena sa contribui cu atit de putin, dar mai bine atit decit nimic : nu
> cunosc un simbol al Romaniei rezistente, al Romaniei verticale mai puternic,
> mai emotionant si mai convingator decit dl. Rosca. Chiar daca, pare-se, nu
> convinge pe toata lumea. Sau cu atit mai mult...
> 
> Adrian Vasiliu

Doresc sa ma adug si eu acelorasi aprecieri si sa afirm ca suntetm 
norocosi sa avem printre noi (cred) un intelectual de calitatea dlui 
Rosca. Dar ceea ce cred eu, gindind Romania (si activind de multi ani 
intr-o medie de 10 ore zilnic pt. domeniul romanesc) este ca cea mai mare 
lipsa a Romaniei nu este in persoane de genul dlui Rosca intelectualul ci 
in intelectuali de genul acesta (inclusiv calibrul moral) care sa fie si 
activi, activi e putin spus, MODELE este cuvintul...Ele ne lipsesc sau 
sunt prea putine. Mari personalitati politice ne lipsesc...care sa fie 
deci si intelectuali, si pragmatici la nevoie si totdeuna caractere
puternice si pentru interesele tarii...Oare dl.Rosca nu mai poate sa fie 
la fel de activ cum inteleg ca a fost in tara acum citiva ani? De aceasta 
am avea nevoie. Aici, in SUA si Canada, ne lipsesc liderii cu desavirsire.
Poate ca nu sunt nici destui posibili "followers" caci daca ei ar fi fost 
multi si intelepti dintre ei s-ar fi ridicat si lideri...Poate ca unii ar 
avea calitatile dar ceilalti nu vor sa recunoasca, poate ca presa nu a 
stiut sa stimuleze, poate ca, poate ca...Dar acum URGENT este nevoie sa 
producem o mare schimbare. Oare putem?Oare vrem destul? Oare ne dam seama 
ca am avea de cistigat chiar si la nivel personal caci mai mult sau mia 
putin toti avem sentimentul complexului vinovatiei ca nu facem destul 
pt.tara si pt.valorile noastre si pt.noi ca grup SI NICI PT.SOCIETATEA 
AMERICANA IN CARE TRAIM si in care, alaturi de capacitatile noastre 
intelectuale, am putea avea si o voce, idei, adica un aport real, "aport 
romanesc" substantial, ca microgrup si nu numai accidental prin indivizi 
deosebiti, pasari rare...care pot sfirsi ca ICARI fara noi, restul...

Rodica Perciali

 From: Rad (rad@airmail.net)
 Subject: Re: Pericolul nationalismului... 
 Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
 Date: 1996/09/18 


Adrian VASILIU wrote:
> 
> roscai@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Rosca Ioan) wrote:
> >Ioan Rosca,
> >purtator de cuvint al unui singur membru CDR (Ioan Rosca)
> >sperind totusi ca exprima nazuintele mai multora
> 
> Rog sa fiu considerat ca facind parte dintre cei care impartasesc nazuintele
> domnului Rosca. Si nu e vorba aici (doar) de aspectul generic al acestor
> nazuinte ("democratizare" a tarii, de pilda), ci de culoarea - si greutatea
> specifica pe care le au aceste nazuinte in mesajele postate cu obstinatie de
> Ioan Rosca in ultimii ani. Am mai spus-o cu alte prilejuri si mi-e un pic
> jena sa contribui cu atit de putin, dar mai bine atit decit nimic : nu
> cunosc un simbol al Romaniei rezistente, al Romaniei verticale mai puternic,
> mai emotionant si mai convingator decit dl. Rosca. Chiar daca, pare-se, nu
> convinge pe toata lumea. Sau cu atit mai mult...
> 
> Adrian Vasiliu

Mr Rosca is an antisemite and a cry baby weenie.  His position is not "verticala",
but "vaicareala".  He SELECTIVELY applies "principles", which means that they are
not principles at all.  There is no moral line that you can say that he advocates:
look closely at his posts and you will see that he as a norm applies different
standards of interpretation, depending on whether things are within his nationalistic
frame or outside of it.
His rethoric is identical to the Iron Guard's with the exception that he now has
the "communists in power" horse to beat, as well.  This is not to say that denouncing
communism is not the right thing to do; the striking fact is that he is using this as
the canvas on top of which he adds prejudiced, antisemitic nuances which seem to be
at the core of his thinking.

I hope you remember that a few months ago (when I was corresponding with you in
private, Mr Vasiliu), Mr Rosca tried to portray me as a communist nostalgic, implying
that I was one because I am a Romanian Jew.  He challanged me to denounce communism and
its methods, which I did (mentioning names, as well).   He dissapeared when it came
to his denouncing the nationalism [and methods] of murderers that he still helds as
freedom fighters and for whom he does propaganda.

All of this, of course, is a difference in ideas, so I will not try to influence you
or anybody that mine are perfect, correct, the one and only solution.  I just want to 
point to you [and others] that it is easy to fall prey to some nationalistic rethoric
REGARDLESS of your nationality.  Believe it or not :^) , it DOES sound good and it does
give more importance to the reader.  Note though that Mr Rosca is not somebody with
solutions and that his [few] ideas about how to fix some problems that he perceives, are
not democratic, as he loudly claims them to be (and you believe him).  They are
not democratic because he believes that they can be applied selectively and with
different standards.  There is NO moral value in this.  At the same time (if the moral
aspect is not an issue to you), I'll just remind you that this same type of thinking
created problems in the past (where Mr Rosca takes much of his thinking from, anyway).

Do you know, Mr Vasiliu, of any society where nationalism like Mr Rosca's is the norm,
that you would like to live in (past or present)?
Now to a hypotetical, yet more concrete question: let's say that in Romania nationalism
becomes the norm (everybody is in agreement, those who do not are communists who do not
deserve to live in Romania, so do with them whatever Mr Rosca thinks we need to do with
them - he never specifies it); would this solve everything (if anything)?

Last word - back to Mr Rosca's selectiveness - his constant refusal to denounce those
who commited the Holocaust of Romanian Jewry shows his real face.  On acount of their
having "faught communism", he absolves all those horrible murderers.  He is basically
saying "those that fight for our cause have a chance of redemption, more so if 
they killed people that don't belong to our nation".  As long as you and Mr Rosca
militate for nationalism, you'll be all right.  I wouldn't want to be in your shoes 
though when (once nationalism installed), you'd start to have views different from
Mr Rosca's, thus loosing the priviledge of fighter for "our cause".

Rad

 From: Mihai Caragiu (caragiu@delta.math.wsu.edu)
 Subject: Re: Pericolul nationalismului... 
 Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
 Date: 1996/09/20 


Adrian VASILIU wrote:

> roscai@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Rosca Ioan) wrote:
> >Ioan Rosca,
> >purtator de cuvint al unui singur membru CDR (Ioan Rosca)
> >sperind totusi ca exprima nazuintele mai multora
>
> Rog sa fiu considerat ca facind parte dintre cei care impartasesc nazuintele
> domnului Rosca. Si nu e vorba aici (doar) de aspectul generic al acestor
> nazuinte ("democratizare" a tarii, de pilda), ci de culoarea - si greutatea
> specifica pe care le au aceste nazuinte in mesajele postate cu obstinatie de
> Ioan Rosca in ultimii ani. Am mai spus-o cu alte prilejuri si mi-e un pic
> jena sa contribui cu atit de putin, dar mai bine atit decit nimic : nu
> cunosc un simbol al Romaniei rezistente, al Romaniei verticale mai puternic,
> mai emotionant si mai convingator decit dl. Rosca. Chiar daca, pare-se, nu
> convinge pe toata lumea. Sau cu atit mai mult...
>
> Adrian Vasiliu

    I would like to subscribe to Mr.Vasiliu's statement, being one of
those for which any of Mr.Rosca's articles on s.c.r. is a gift, bringing meaning to
life, providing a fortunate opportunity for performing an exercise of admiration, in a few
words, I was won by him.
 Mihai Caragiu 


Rad Edelstein wrote:
> 
> Mr Rosca is an antisemite and a cry baby weenie.  
>...
As for Mr. Edelstein: perhaps he will make history by reformulating the
concept of  "antisemitism" to the effect that one will be labeled an "anti-semite"
whenever he will be hated by a "semite", isn't it.

 From: Miha Ahronovitz (miha@io.org)
 Subject: Re: Pericolul nationalismului... 
 Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
 Date: 1996/09/21 


I>As for Mr. Edelstein: perhaps he will make history by reformulating the
>concept of "antisemitism" to the effect that one will be labeled an "anti-semite"
>whenever he  will be hated by a "semite", isn't it.

Ai re-aparut? Esti neschimbat, neclintit. Spui o prostie si apoi mumuri 
Ramayana in nestire... S-a anuntat deja la buletinul meteorologic

 From: SavulescuG@aol.com (SavulescuG@aol.com)
 Subject: Re: Pericolul nationalismului... 
 Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
 Date: 1996/09/25 


Domnule Rosca,

inca o data straluciti ca un luceafar pe cerul antisemitismului. Domnul
Moses, ambasadorul SUA la Bucuresti este in principiu pentru un guvern
de centru-dreapta format intre CDR-USD si ANL. Realitatea politica sa
schimbat domnule Rosca, trebuie sa inregistrati ca PNTCD este acum in
Opozitie cu Petre Roman. Cu parere de rau, dar dumnevoastra va aflati de
mult in offsaid politic.

Cat priveste implicarea unor functionari de stat federali americani in
campania electorala in Romania alaturi de Ion Iliescu, ea este un
scandal, dar care nu este exploatat. 

Nu stiu care sint problemele Dv, dar se pare ca puneti orice la
socoteala in spatele evreilor. Nu vi-se pare acest fapt mai mult decat
stupid?

Chiar credeti ca ve-ti guverna aceasta tara dupa 3 noiembrie?